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Announcements > Deleting of torrents - changed procedure

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JanErikPosted at 2016-01-30 18:41:55(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)
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Until now all uploaders have had the ability to delete their own uploads, and this has worked just fine. Only torrents that should have been deleted have been deleted. In general this is where there have been some errors with the upload or that the uploader didn't manage to seed 100% of the torrent due to some text files being overwritten after creating the torrent file.

In the last days we have had 2 users deleting their torrents without any good reason doing it.
As far as I know, they were perfectly good torrents. About 16-17 have been deleted by these 2 users.

I have received PMs asking why so many torrents are deleted from Bowie Station.

At least one of these torrents was a very big torrent, where the members that downloaded this big torrent have no chance to seed it back to others to improve their ratio.
If you downloaded this big torrent that was deleted, and have a bad ratio, please send me a PM and I will remove 20GB from your download stats.  

To handle this we have changed the rules for who that can delete torrents.

From now on, only moderators can delete torrents.

If you need to delete a torrent, either contact a moderator that is currently online or write a request in the support forum to get it deleted.

Jan Erik

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cheerupPosted at 2016-01-30 20:50:06(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)
I Wish I Still Had My Scarf


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It's a shame that those users deleted their torrents without any warning and I understand why you come to the conclusion that only mods should be able to delete torrents from now on.

On the other hand I strongly believe in torrenting and that whoever share their wealth should also be in control of that torrent. I've been a member on various BT boards and usually an uploader myself over the last 15 years.

In two cases I think I know why the torrents were deleted ... the typical 99.9% problem - the uploader changed the txt-file after he created the torrent-file. Maybe he was frustrated with himself and overreacted ... who knows ...



It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
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MBFPosted at 2016-01-30 21:25:56(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)


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cheerup wrote:

... who knows ...

Fingers crossed that this issue has been resolved now....

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JanErikPosted at 2016-01-30 21:37:14(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)
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It seems that the torrents from one of the users are coming back up. Someone else had access to his computer and "had some fun".

At both TTD and Dime you also have to request the mods to delete a torrent, so I think it is best to keep it this way to avoid similar problems in the future.

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toneblokePosted at 2016-01-31 00:16:42(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)
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JanErik wrote:

At both TTD and Dime you also have to request the mods to delete a torrent, so I think it is best to keep it this way to avoid similar problems in the future.

"thumbs up icon".



"Look up here, I’m in heaven
I’ve got scars that can’t be seen"
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MBFPosted at 2016-01-31 01:29:33(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)


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tonebloke wrote:

"thumbs up icon".

We definitely need some more icons at some point!  :-)

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KiwikidPosted at 2016-01-31 02:46:47(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)


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JanErik wrote:

It seems that the torrents from one of the users are coming back up. Someone else had access to his computer and "had some fun"

A big Thanks to JanErik for finding someone wanting to have some fun  :?  

looks like there'll be a lot of happy people around

Last edited by Kiwikid on 2016-01-31 07:49:10




Bless the Tapers and Uploaders they make the Music Live
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SimmdalePosted at 2016-01-31 03:30:10(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)


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Does it really come as any surprise that the two people that posted a comment on this thread would want to give it a "thumbs-up"?  It shouldn't at all, they are both moderators here at BowieStation and this only gives them absolute final control over everything that is uploaded here. Why would they be opposed to that for any reason? But, let's look at the other side of the matter. The view offered by cheerup a few comments back "that whoever share their wealth should also be in control of that". This new rule affects everybody that is the true backbone of this tracker site (or any other), the people to upload and share things with others here. You should place a disclaimer for all to see when they upload " Let it be known that by uploading whatever it is, that you are giving away all and all further decision of "your recording, you work (remaster, matrix, etc...), creative work contained herein, and all aspects of what you choose to upload. You will have no say whether any of it, no matter how personally involved with the creation and ownership of such. You have given all of that away to the future decision of whether you want the removal of anything the Staff of this site. Do you agree to that?"  

Do you think that would cause some people to reconsider the uploading of something to this tracker?

What if the Mod that you contact with is having a bad day, has had differences with you beforehand, or thinks that for whatever logical or legitimate reason that you state that you want it taken down is not sufficient in their eyes to do so? It was mentioned that both TTD and Dime have this type of policy in effect there, have you seen any thing that is put "on hold" there at TTD have a resolution without some sort of disagreement taking place there in the comment between the uploader and the Mod that makes that decision? It is the same thing that happens when you ask for a torrent to be deleted. The same exact thing happens all the time at Dime, I once had to literally fight with the head moderator there for three days to get a torrent taken down so that I could replace it with the correct one attached, through numerous PM's and even emails just to get a listing taken down so I could put it right back up with the correct torrent attached!

Anyway, back to the matter here at hand. This all came about because of the actions that I took on two of my own uploads here. Again, something further and unrelated with another member also happened but it was already truly decided for this to take effect. On the "RarestOneBowie" upload, it was stated to me that because there were some officially released tracks and that the question of the full legitimacy of that release, that I should have cleared it with the Mods before the upload and to that I do agree, I should have. But, after the upload, the actual discussion and decision was being made there in the upload thread about that matter. And, after another member here attacked me over the whole matter in a comment in the listing and to just make any further discussion unnecessary, I chose to simple delete the listing voluntarily myself. I did not see that doing this would make for further encumbrances for all the people uploading here. To add another hoop to jump through to get a torrent you want taken down accomplished (I think that most all the cases of this is legitimate and not done so by some others actions or for any wrong or illogical reasons).

On the matter of the Blu-ray... a commentator on it expressed that the total existence of it was unnecessary as a Blu-ray. But, it existence as a Blu-ray is very much neccessary to those that WANT it AS a Blu-ray playback medium. Another point was made to his commenting on the "quality"... he had no right at all to speak of the quality of it because he never saw the quality of it at all. In fact, the Blu-ray actually doubled the fps (frames per second) rate of the video and afforded a much higher transfer rate also. And many users who actually did have both to judge the quality said that the Blu-ray looked to be the "better" quality. But that is was deemed unnecessary, by someone who some at the this site think of as a "God" because he made some Bowie recordings, had made his proclamation of said upload. Another commentator of the listing even said that exact thing and that you do not "argue" with this person because he is a "deity". All of that there was actually said in the last comment posted before I deleted. So, I made the decision to remove to end any more further "arguments" about it to occur. But I did not simply delete it, I waited for more than 5 hours for 2 more downloaders to finish it complete. I even made note of this in the SB, now deleted because after the deletion, the comment made no sense to anything. But, I did wait that extended amount of time. In fact, I made a screenshot of the seeders/leecher list at the time to actually compare where everybody stood on their ratio matter (unfortunately this also was later deleted by me). Of those two members that I waited to finish, one had already seeded back more that what he downloaded and the other about 80% of it. Of all the downloaders/seeders still shown on the screen grab most everyone of them had already seeded back to the full ratio, many had 2 or 3 times the amount and one or two members had 5 times or more the amount. If I recall correctly there where only about three or four people that had not come very close to seeding back the full ratio but had already done a considerable bit, and their upload speed was probably so slow that they might not have ever gotten back to that level because any more downloaders of it had effectively came to an end at the time I deleted it. So, if anybody wants to come forth and claim the "bounty on my head, or their downloading my upload" then I hereby authorize the amount be taken from my stats and given to theirs.

So I deleted those two upload listings because I actually felt that it would be of benefit to the site, and for no other reason than that. But, of course, I was wrong in thinking that would be the result... at all.

I guess the whole purpose of a Forum is for people to express their thinking of matters and share that or to share other things with the members of the site. I just wanted to do that here myself.

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JanErikPosted at 2016-01-31 04:58:23(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)
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[quote]Does it really come as any surprise that the two people that posted a comment on this thread would want to give it a "thumbs-up"?  It shouldn't at all, they are both moderators here at BowieStation and this only gives them absolute final control over everything that is uploaded here. Why would they be opposed to that for any reason? But, let's look at the other side of the matter. The view offered by cheerup a few comments back "that whoever share their wealth should also be in control of that". This new rule affects everybody that is the true backbone of this tracker site (or any other), the people to upload and share things with others here. You should place a disclaimer for all to see when they upload " Let it be known that by uploading whatever it is, that you are giving away all and all further decision of "your recording, you work (remaster, matrix, etc...), creative work contained herein, and all aspects of what you choose to upload. You will have no say whether any of it, no matter how personally involved with the creation and ownership of such. You have given all of that away to the future decision of whether you want the removal of anything the Staff of this site. Do you agree to that?"  

Do you think that would cause some people to reconsider the uploading of something to this tracker?

What if the Mod that you contact with is having a bad day, has had differences with you beforehand, or thinks that for whatever logical or legitimate reason that you state that you want it taken down is not sufficient in their eyes to do so? It was mentioned that both TTD and Dime have this type of policy in effect there, have you seen any thing that is put "on hold" there at TTD have a resolution without some sort of disagreement taking place there in the comment between the uploader and the Mod that makes that decision? It is the same thing that happens when you ask for a torrent to be deleted. The same exact thing happens all the time at Dime, I once had to literally fight with the head moderator there for three days to get a torrent taken down so that I could replace it with the correct one attached, through numerous PM's and even emails just to get a listing taken down so I could put it right back up with the correct torrent attached!

Anyway, back to the matter here at hand. This all came about because of the actions that I took on two of my own uploads here. Again, something further and unrelated with another member also happened but it was already truly decided for this to take effect. On the "RarestOneBowie" upload, it was stated to me that because there were some officially released tracks and that the question of the full legitimacy of that release, that I should have cleared it with the Mods before the upload and to that I do agree, I should have. But, after the upload, the actual discussion and decision was being made there in the upload thread about that matter. And, after another member here attacked me over the whole matter in a comment in the listing and to just make any further discussion unnecessary, I chose to simple delete the listing voluntarily myself. I did not see that doing this would make for further encumbrances for all the people uploading here. To add another hoop to jump through to get a torrent you want taken down accomplished (I think that most all the cases of this is legitimate and not done so by some others actions or for any wrong or illogical reasons).

On the matter of the Blu-ray... a commentator on it expressed that the total existence of it was unnecessary as a Blu-ray. But, it existence as a Blu-ray is very much neccessary to those that WANT it AS a Blu-ray playback medium. Another point was made to his commenting on the "quality"... he had no right at all to speak of the quality of it because he never saw the quality of it at all. In fact, the Blu-ray actually doubled the fps (frames per second) rate of the video and afforded a much higher transfer rate also. And many users who actually did have both to judge the quality said that the Blu-ray looked to be the "better" quality. But that is was deemed unnecessary, by someone who some at the this site think of as a "God" because he made some Bowie recordings, had made his proclamation of said upload. Another commentator of the listing even said that exact thing and that you do not "argue" with this person because he is a "deity". All of that there was actually said in the last comment posted before I deleted. So, I made the decision to remove to end any more further "arguments" about it to occur. But I did not simply delete it, I waited for more than 5 hours for 2 more downloaders to finish it complete. I even made note of this in the SB, now deleted because after the deletion, the comment made no sense to anything. But, I did wait that extended amount of time. In fact, I made a screenshot of the seeders/leecher list at the time to actually compare where everybody stood on their ratio matter (unfortunately this also was later deleted by me). Of those two members that I waited to finish, one had already seeded back more that what he downloaded and the other about 80% of it. Of all the downloaders/seeders still shown on the screen grab most everyone of them had already seeded back to the full ratio, many had 2 or 3 times the amount and one or two members had 5 times or more the amount. If I recall correctly there where only about three or four people that had not come very close to seeding back the full ratio but had already done a considerable bit, and their upload speed was probably so slow that they might not have ever gotten back to that level because any more downloaders of it had effectively came to an end at the time I deleted it. So, if anybody wants to come forth and claim the "bounty on my head, or their downloading my upload" then I hereby authorize the amount be taken from my stats and given to theirs.

So I deleted those two upload listings because I actually felt that it would be of benefit to the site, and for no other reason than that. But, of course, I was wrong in thinking that would be the result... at all.

I guess the whole purpose of a Forum is for people to express their thinking of matters and share that or to share other things with the members of the site. I just wanted to do that here myself.
[/quote]

(The whole post is quoted in case you decide to delete the post)

Simmdale, please calm down.

Firstly regarding the "new rule", we are not Dime or TTD. If things take time and are complicated there, it doesn't mean that it will be the same here. If an upload is faulty in some way, and the uploader wants to replace that with a better version, normally at least one of the mods is online at any time to help out.

When an uploader uploads a torrent, and at least one person downloads it, the torrent is basically out in the wild, without control of the original uploader. If he didn't want to share it in the first place, he shouldn't have uploaded it. Deleting a torrent after 10 people downloading do not stop the torrent spreading on the internet.

In the history of Bowie Station no one has deleted a good torrent before you decided to delete all your uploads except for one torrent.

The reason for deleting? One person didn't see the point in an upscaled Blu-Ray release.
There are now more than 2000 users at the site and if you get complaints from just one user, you delete the torrent?

I backed you up with PMs before you posted the post about being treated badly.

In that thread many of the moderators posted in the thread and supported you, because it was just you telling your part of the story. They did not have the access to the comments written since you had already deleted that.

Due to your post we had to take action and look at what really happened. I spent time retrieving backups and posted that on the staffs forum. After seeing the "evidence", the case turned around for all moderators.

Case 1:

Blu Ray

A user that you call God did not see the point in a Blu Ray release of the show.
He commented the posting. Totally accepted.
You responded by attacking him as a person. Not accepted.
You deleted the torrent without any good reason - Not accepted.

Cade 2:

RarestOneBowie

You uploaded a CD that has had various (semi) official releases. You admitted that you thought the upload might get banned, but wanted to see if it was accepted. When you know that it is questionable, you should have asked. Behavior not accepted.
Another user complained about the posting and you managed to push his buttons. He stepped over the line and he has also been warned. He accepted the warning and understood that his comment was not acceptable.

After the warning you received you sent individual PMs to all moderators that posted in your thread, possibly to try to split the staff to get someone on "your" side.

First, many of the mods were on your side, before they had the actual postings to read.
After they read the postings, all moderators agreed on the conclusion.

Until now, Bowie Station, has been a friendly place totally without up-heated arguments, so this is the first time the moderators have needed to take action, and not only with one case, but 2 cases you are involved.

If you had laid this to rest and not posting the complaining post on the forum. Nothing would have happened.
You have received a warning, but do not accept that. Your behavior would probably have banned you from most other sites.

I have spent too many hours on this case. This post is hopefully the last time and energy I use on this case.

Please lay this to rest, and give peace a chance.

Jan Erik

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paperdragonPosted at 2016-01-31 10:41:34(189 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)
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Quote:

It shouldn't at all, they are both moderators here at BowieStation and this only gives them absolute final control over everything that is uploaded here.

Considering that people on this thread paid for and built this site, and could delete the whole damn thing with a click, I'd say they've always had final and total control over everything that's uploaded here.

Nevertheless, I think it's more important that until now, everyone had the ability to delete their own torrents, and all was well. It wasn't until that privilege was abused that this change became necessary.

Quote:

You should place a disclaimer for all to see when they upload " Let it be known that by uploading whatever it is, that you are giving away all and all further decision of "your recording, you work (remaster, matrix, etc...), creative work contained herein, and all aspects of what you choose to upload. You will have no say whether any of it, no matter how personally involved with the creation and ownership of such. You have given all of that away to the future decision of whether you want the removal of anything the Staff of this site. Do you agree to that?"

I think I was about a year old when I realized that if you give something to someone else, it becomes theirs. I fail to see how one could share something with 2000 people and still retain complete control over it. Still, I'd like to see the torrent site where people can upload and then delete whatever they want whenever they want. It would be fun as hell to watch.

Quote:

But, after the upload, the actual discussion and decision was being made there in the upload thread about that matter.

No, it wasn't. It was in a behind the scenes discussion that went on for what seems like years.

Quote:

I did not see that doing this would make for further encumbrances for all the people uploading here.

How would you like to be, say, 95% finished with downloading a torrent, and it suddenly just disappears? Or how would you like to download a torrent and then it disappears, giving you no chance to seed it and restore your ratio?

Quote:

On the matter of the Blu-ray... a commentator on it expressed that the total existence of it was unnecessary as a Blu-ray.

People have opinions.

Quote:

But that is was deemed unnecessary, by someone who some at the this site think of as a "God" because he made some Bowie recordings, had made his proclamation of said upload. Another commentator of the listing even said that exact thing and that you do not "argue" with this person because he is a "deity".

As I said - opinions. As for someone here being a "deity," funny - I didn't see him at the last meeting....

Quote:

So I deleted those two upload listings because I actually felt that it would be of benefit to the site, and for no other reason than that

And because of some guy's opinion....

Quote:

I guess the whole purpose of a Forum is for people to express their thinking of matters and share that or to share other things with the members of the site. I just wanted to do that here myself.

It's one of the purposes, anyway. Thanks for your opinion.



...and then my mind split open.
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learmPosted at 2016-01-31 12:08:41(188 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)


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Quote:

Quote:
You should place a disclaimer for all to see when they upload " Let it be known that by uploading whatever it is, that you are giving away all and all further decision of "your recording, you work (remaster, matrix, etc...), creative work contained herein, and all aspects of what you choose to upload. You will have no say whether any of it, no matter how personally involved with the creation and ownership of such. You have given all of that away to the future decision of whether you want the removal of anything the Staff of this site. Do you agree to that?"


I think I was about a year old when I realized that if you give something to someone else, it becomes theirs. I fail to see how one could share something with 2000 people and still retain complete control over it. Still, I'd like to see the torrent site where people can upload and then delete whatever they want whenever they want. It would be fun as hell to watch.

I can't remember where I read this, I think it was on dime, that when you make a recording of a live show you are not the "owner" of this recording because if someone would have any rights on this it is the artist who gave the show.

So I would say when you made a tape or you made something out of this tape you don't own it and it should be there for everyone who wants to listen to or look at it.

So even when you "give it away" as you say it, it's there for the fan community.
The site moderators or administrators don't own it as well they just care for the rules of the site.

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DavesolarDonatedPosted at 2016-01-31 15:03:20(188 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)


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Quote:

Jan Erik said: Please lay this to rest, and give peace a chance.

....so, why don't we do it ??     B)

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paperdragonPosted at 2016-01-31 21:05:30(188 wks ago) (Announcements / Deleting of torrents - changed procedure)
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Davesolar wrote:

Quote:

Jan Erik said: Please lay this to rest, and give peace a chance.

....so, why don't we do it ??     B)

Point taken.



...and then my mind split open.
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