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Bowie General > Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush

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JanErikPosted at 2015-05-30 21:42:26(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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I read in the info file that the lineage for this recording is:

Original CDR > CDR > EAC > Flac

I bought the CDR back in 96 from England from somebody that sent out lists of CDRs to sell.

Is this the original CDR or was I ripped off back in 1996?



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JanErikPosted at 2015-05-30 23:05:47(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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And the same goes with this one:



Original CDR or not?

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toneblokePosted at 2015-05-31 03:02:40(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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If you're asking if these are rip-offs of other released boots - unknown.

They do look like "original" boots though.


1 other thing. Bowie at the Bush is dated 1997.



"Look up here, I’m in heaven
I’ve got scars that can’t be seen"
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JanErikPosted at 2015-05-31 03:13:51(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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I just thought that my CDRs might be an upgrade to the current versions in the SJ archive which are ripped from copies of the original CDR. Don't know if I manage to rip them though. They are getting old. I know that Bowie at the Bush is dated 1997, I was there on the 11th.

What I wrote in the first post was when I bought Boys Keep Singing, and that was probably in 96.

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nickfaPosted at 2015-05-31 12:57:38(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)


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Both 100pcb productions ,look like the originals, but they got copied and traded a lot back in the day.....some of the best,maybe most of the best recordings from those days came from that label .

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GoblinKingPosted at 2015-05-31 13:22:33(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)


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In fact, the Savage Jaw rips came from 100pcb originals, so it's not possible to get a "closer to the source" copy.

What 100pcb did though, was make a unique marker in each copy, maybe one or two samples out of place, which wouldn't be audible, but he'd be able to tell where they were. That was so he could identify who leaked a copy to the "online liberators".

So, if you have a copy from an alternate buyer, you might be able to work out which samples are incorrect, and replace the incorrect one or two samples. That would be an upgrade, because it would result in a copy which hadn't been "marked". ;)

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JanErikPosted at 2015-05-31 16:32:43(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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When it was written in the lineage:

Original CDR > CDR > EAC > Flac

it doesn't seem like that it is copied directly from the original CDR from 100PCB.
Is the lineage wrong, or was them copied from CDR copies of the original CDR?

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GoblinKingPosted at 2015-06-01 10:57:34(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)


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Remembering back that far is difficult, but I tend to think all copies may have come from 100pcb's original CDR. However that wouldn't explain how any marker would be put on the CDR, and I believe markers were put on most issues...

I'd still like to see an EAC comparison between the new copy and the Savage Jaw rip. ;)

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JimmyShelterPosted at 2015-06-01 13:17:25(236 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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I guess the original CDR would have to be ripped to WAVs, the WAVs doctored to include the marker, then the WAVs burned to the new CDR. Can't see any other way it could be done.

Also, unless the markers where 'obvious' then you would really need three copies to be able to determine what the original was without the markers. Otherwise you just end up with 2 different samples somewhere - but which one is original? But if you have 3, then 2 should be the same and only 1 different - the marker.

But even then, that assumes that they are perfect copies. How well were they copied from the original? The first version of EAC didn't appear until 1998. If they were all made from a set of doctored WAV files, then they should all be identical apart from the markers, but that isn't what the lineage says.

I think only by being able to analyse 3 copies could this be resolved.



Sometimes I think that you're too sweet to die,
Then other times I think you ought to be buried alive.
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GoblinKingPosted at 2015-06-03 15:11:34(235 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)


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I would be expecting that the out of place samples would be obvious misplacements, but you are right. If they're close to where they should be, the only way would be to get a third unique copy.

I know the rips used for the SJ Archives were all done by EAC in Secure Mode. In fact, we all had offsets correctly set on EAC as well. Having thought about it further, it is possible (and also likely) that the Original CDR > CDR part of the lineage was from one Savage Jaw staff member to the Savage Jaw staff member who uploaded it.

Looking at the "Bowie at the Bush" disk, is the label artwork printed directly onto the disk, or is it a silver background printed on a paper label. I'm not sure it was possible to print on a CDR directly in 1997, but then, you didn't specify when you bought the "Bush" CDR set...

In any case, have you been able to rip them?

I'm certainly interested to check them out. ;)

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JimmyShelterPosted at 2015-06-03 16:07:31(235 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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I have though about putting a kind of 'signature' on things that I've made, although I never actually bothered. A sample is really just a 16-bit signed integer, ie, a number between -32,768 and +32,767. So you would only have to changed one sample by 1 to be able to identify it, and that would be totally imperceptible. In practice though, you would probably change more than one sample to allow for copying errors, but they would still be virtually impossible to find unless you had 3 copies to compare. Even then you would have to compare them sample for sample. A Hex editor would be more useful than a WAV editor I would think. If you could actually 'see' them in a WAV editor then you would probably hear them as well.

If 'Original CDR' referred to the one that was bought by a SJ member then that would still allow for them to have been marked as you suggested :)



Sometimes I think that you're too sweet to die,
Then other times I think you ought to be buried alive.
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JanErikPosted at 2015-06-03 16:21:12(235 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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I tried to rip "Boys Keep Swinging", but it got into problems halfway through the first disc.
I'm ripping Bowie At The Bush now.

I have 5 others from the same source,
- Teenage Daydream 2CD
- Bring On The Chien
- Happy Birthday Mr. Bowie
- Battlecries & Champagne
- Starting Fires

All CDs has paper glued to them except for Bush and Happy Birthday which is printed on the CDs.

I bought all of them in 96-98.

Here is his list from March 1998 http://www.bowiestation.com/temp/100PCB.pdf

(I know the pictures are bad and taken with my phone, but they are readable. )

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neilwilkesPosted at 2015-06-03 20:46:14(235 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)


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AARGH.
Paper labels are horrendous as the heat from a drive will cause the glue to shrink the label & it can seriously imbalance the discs - not good at all.
I've got a good rip of "Battlecries & Champagne" & can upload that and save you the trouble?
Let me know Jan?

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JanErikPosted at 2015-06-03 21:10:07(235 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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Neil, there's no need for that. It is also already on the tracker.
If you click on Browse Torrents, and then select the category you see all torrents from that tour. And it can also be sorted by date :)

It is only Bring On The Chien (Paris 96) and Happy Birthday that is not on the tracker.

Goblinking: Disc 1 & 2 of Bowie at the Bush copied fine, but sync problems on disc 3 and 4. Do you want disc 1&2 to compare? I can send them with wetransfer if you like.

Last edited by JanErik on 2015-06-03 21:13:42


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GoblinKingPosted at 2015-06-05 16:02:10(235 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)


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Yes. Thanks JE, that should be interesting. :)

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JanErikPosted at 2015-08-03 01:45:07(227 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)
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Nearly 2 months late...
CD 1 & 2 of Bowie At The Bush

http://we.tl/JtQsTwKxqx

(Valid to 10 August, 2015)

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interplayPosted at 2015-08-03 04:01:24(227 wks ago) (Bowie General / Boys Keep Singing & Bowie at the Bush)


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The reason for a tracker like this is so that when your expensive CDRs will no longer play you can go find a clean rip.

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