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Request for upload/Reseed/ISO > Toronto September 4th, 1983

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chrisnathouDonatedPosted at 2016-03-20 15:35:32(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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I don't know if anyone have already noticed that every show we can find from September 4th, 1983 in Toronto, the one with Mick Ronson for Jean Genie, is in fact a mix from the 3rd and the 4th ?
I've downloaded 4 o 5 versions of it, and I still find that same version which does not fit with the description you can find in 'The Concert Tapes' :
It's said that in the band intro, David suggests there will be an exceptional surprise before the end of the show.
It's said too, that at the end of Breaking Glass, Bowie ends the song by calling "Oh no, no" to finish it with a long "Noooo !"

Can anyone tell if he has somewhere that version of the show, which is genuine from the 4th in its entirety ? :)

Last edited by chrisnathou on 2016-03-21 11:30:29


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JanErikPosted at 2016-03-20 16:25:58(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)
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I just checked the versions I have received from the private collector that has sent me the tape rips for the Bowstat series, and one of those have that intro, and I believe that recording is complete.
It is also on the HGSS11CD, but that is incomplete.

I'll take a closer look at it later tonight.

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JanErikPosted at 2016-03-20 18:50:52(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)
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I have track split the full and the incomplete version I had of this concert, bu I'm unsure what is the correct setlist.

The full version has this setlist:

01 Intro
02 Look Back In Anger
03 Heroes
04 What In The World
05 Golden Years
06 Fashion
07 Let's Dance
08 Breaking Glass
09 Life On Mars
10 Sorrow
11 Cat People (cut)
12 China Girl
13 Scary Monsters
14 Rebel Rebel
15 White Light White Heat
16 Station To Station
17 Cracked Actor
18 Ashes To Ashes
19 Space Oddity
20 Band Introductions
21 Young Americans
22 Fame
23 TVC 15
24 Star
25 Stay
26 Jean Genie
27 Modern Love
28 I Can't Explain

And the incomplete version from Fame to the end with ML and ICE switching the order.

There are cuts/bad transitions with the last tracks, so I don't know if ICE was played or not. The sound of the last tracks are also not the same.

On the full recording the tracks from TVC15 and onwards have much better quality than the rest.

Was I can't explain played that night, and if so, was it played before or after Modern Love?

Both versions have Bowie thanking Mick Ronson on the start of Modern Love.
Breaking Glass has the Noooooo at the end.
The Band introductions includes "a big surprise later"

Still some work to do on this one...

Last edited by JanErik on 2016-03-20 18:53:13


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MBFPosted at 2016-03-20 19:33:14(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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Tricky one as Bassman's site shows the same set list for both nights...

1. Look Back In Anger
2. "Heroes"
3. What In The World
4. Golden Years
5. Fashion
6. Let's Dance
7. Breaking Glass
8. Life On Mars?
9. Sorrow
10. Cat People (Putting Out Fire)
11. China Girl
12. Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps)
13. Rebel Rebel
14. White Light, White Heat
15. Station To Station
16. Cracked Actor
17. Ashes To Ashes
18. Space Oddity
19. Young Americans
20. Fame
21. TVC-15
encores
22. Star
23. Stay
24. The Jean Genie
25. Modern Love.

Ronno played on Jean Genie which explains Bowie thanking him before ML starts.

Interestingly the Helden site shows ICE being from the 1976 Rolling Thunder Review so that's presumably Ronno being featured there. I've checked and I also have this "Boy could he play guitar" as a download from way back which clearly shows ICE as being from the rolling Thunder Review. For me therefore it's questionable as to whether this was ever played by Bowie in 1983.

http://www.helden.org.uk/b/BoyCouldHePlayEarl'sGuitar.htm

Last edited by MBF on 2016-03-20 19:34:04


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MBFPosted at 2016-03-20 19:43:41(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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chrisnathou wrote:

It's said that in the band intro, David suggests there will be an exceptional surprise before the end of the show.It's said too, that at the end of Breaking Glass, Bowie ends the song by calling "Oh no, no" to finish it with a long "Noooo !"Can anyone tell if he has somewhere that version of the show, which is genuine frome the 4th in its entirety ? :)

Almost. http://www.5years.com/spiders2.htm gives the description of Ronno joining for that evening and it's matched word for word with the intro in Jean Genie.

As for Breaking Glass, I can find no trace of the end of the song finishing the way that you describe. However, there's nothing to say that this wasn't the way the song ended on the 3rd.

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JanErikPosted at 2016-03-20 19:45:36(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)
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I also have "Boy Could He Play Earls Guitar", but that is not totally the same concert.

It does not have the Noooo at the end of Breaking Glass, no surprise in the Band introductions and no thanks to Mick Ronson on Modern Love.

But it does have the intro on Jean Genie.

There seems to be a change in the crowd noise after Jean Genie, and the frequency analysis are different before and after the little change, so Modern Love is not from the 4th on "Boy Could He Play Earls Guitar".

Last edited by JanErik on 2016-03-20 20:05:47


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JanErikPosted at 2016-03-20 20:10:13(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)
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I have 13 recordings of "I can't Explain" from 83, with the last one being August 15th, so it is possible that it was played.

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chrisnathouDonatedPosted at 2016-03-20 20:19:11(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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Quote:

There are cuts/bad transitions with the last tracks, so I don't know if ICE was played or not. The sound of the last tracks are also not the same.

Pimm mentions that the setlist from Toronto 3rd and 4th are the same as for Boston... Where "I Can't Explain" isn't played.

Quote:

I also have "Boy Could He Play Earls Guitar", but that is not totally the same concert.

It does not have the Noooo at the end of Breaking Glass, no surprise in the Band introductions and no thanks to Mick Ronson on Modern Love.

But it does have the intro on Jean Genie.

Yeah, quite strange isn't it ? Someone surely played a trick at some point but from a long time ago since the bootleg had already that problem.

Last edited by chrisnathou on 2016-03-20 20:19:28


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chrisnathouDonatedPosted at 2016-03-20 20:47:54(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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Here is a scan from Pimm's The Concert Tapes concerning Toronto September 4th :
link : http://hpics.li/f4214a3

Last edited by chrisnathou on 2016-03-20 20:48:27


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MBFPosted at 2016-03-20 22:03:00(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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If Pimm is correct then I suppose it's feasible that this isn't all of the 4th and is either a mix of the 3rd & 4th or a mash up of another concert tagged onto the 4th that someone has put out as the 4th...

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JanErikPosted at 2016-03-20 22:11:02(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)
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"Boy Could He Play Earls Guitar" is undoubtedly a mix-up of the 3rd and 4th.
Life on Mars is from the 3rd (Someone yelling Pittsburgh after 14s).
Jean Genie is from the 4th (introduction of Ronson).

The version I have received fits the description from Pimms book, and I believe it might be the full concert from the 4th, with or without ICE.

I'll take a closer look.

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downunder2Posted at 2016-03-21 09:55:02(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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I'll try and shed some light on 'Boy Could He Play...'

When I first started converting tapes to CDR it was just for friends, and back in the early 90's I just assumed it was similar in many ways to tape trading.

I got the tape of that show, which I assumed was the complete show with Ronson from a trader I traded a lot with in the early days of tape trading, from NY.

And when some friends from Melbourne were talking about that show I mentioned I had it on tape somewhere and dug it out and did a down and dirty conversion.

And like in the old tape trading days it was normal to put extra tracks on the end of tape trades to fill space, so I had ICE which was on the end of another tape which was just added with no detail whatsoever.

The Ronson track 'Is There Life on Mars' from a RTR was also a tape filler from one of the many Ronson trades I did at the time also with no info.

I sent it off to a couple of friends like I did with 5 Minutes... and No Soul in Boston and a couple of others at that time, then forgot about them, to me they were just something to share with friends.

This was just as the whole website thing was taking off and some of those early CDR's started showing up in the strangest places, one of which was BB's Basement and then in Ziggy in Concert, that is when I started getting to know Chris.

The whole 2 shows in one was pointed out a while ago on MWP but as I had moved on to other things was not sure where the discussion got to.

I remember having 2 tapes with duplicate songs obviously from both dates but as all my stuff is in storage it's hard to verify now, there are definitely tapes from both nights so hopefully it will be sorted eventually.

I'm sure Erik and the mods here will probably sort it out but as to the dates of ICE and the Ronson track from RTR I can't add any further info, sorry.


steve

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chrisnathouDonatedPosted at 2016-03-21 11:29:06(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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Quote:

The version I have received fits the description from Pimms book, and I believe it might be the full concert from the 4th, with or without ICE.

I'll take a closer look.

Thanks for all your efforts JanErik ;)

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MBFPosted at 2016-03-21 14:50:18(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)


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downunder2 wrote:

I'll try and shed some light on 'Boy Could He Play...sorry.steve

No need to apologise Steve. Thank you for shedding light on this with the history/background. Life's funny isn't? After so long, an answer appears. You never know, we may even find out who really killed Kennedy before I pop my clogs! :-)

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RATPosted at 2016-03-21 17:44:04(423 wks ago) (Request for upload/Reseed/ISO / Toronto September 4th, 1983)
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Thanx for all the info !!!
:-)

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